iDesign Lab
Welcome to the iDesign Lab a Podcast where creativity and curiosity meet style and design hosted by Tiffany Woolley an Interior Designer, a style enthusiast along with her serial entrepreneur husband Scott. A place where they explore the rich and vibrant world of interior design and it’s constant evolution in style. iDesign Lab is your ultimate Interior design podcast where we explore the rich and vibrant world of design and it’s constant evolution in style and trends. iDesign lab provides industry insight, discussing the latest trends, styles and everything in between to better help you style your life through advice from trend setters, designers, influences, fabricators and manufacturers as well as personal stories that inspire, motivate and excite. Join us on this elevated, informative and lively journey into the world of all things Design. For more information about iDesign Lab and Tiffany & Scott Woolley visit the website at www.twinteriors.com/podcast.
iDesign Lab
Luis Carrillo's Insights on Design and Dedication Through His Home Furnishing Journey
Luis Carrillo shares his inspiring journey through the world of home furnishings, emphasizing the significance of relationships, personal growth, and craftsmanship. The episode highlights the evolution of design values and the importance of hiring interior professionals for creating lasting beauty in our homes.
• Luis Carrillo’s unexpected entry into the home furnishings industry
• Importance of following up and building relationships in business
• Overview of Hickory Chair’s commitment to quality and customization
• Personal growth and lessons learned through sobriety
• Discussion on the value of hiring interior designers for better home aesthetics
• Transition of the family business to the next generation
Learn more at:
https://twinteriors.com/podcast/
https://scottwoolley.com
The following podcast iDesign Lab is an SW Group production in association with Five Star and TW Interiors. This is iDesign Lab, a podcast where creativity and curiosity meet style and design. Curator of interiors, furnishings and lifestyles. Hosted by Tiffany Woolley, an interior designer and a style enthusiast, along with her serial entrepreneur husband Scott, idesign Lab is your ultimate design podcast where we explore the rich and vibrant world of design and its constant evolution in style and trends. Idesign Lab provides industry insight, discussing the latest trends, styles and everything in between to better help you style your life, through advice from trendsetters, designers, influencers, innovators, fabricators and manufacturers, as well as personal stories that inspire, motivate and excite. And join us on this elevated, informative and lively journey into the world of all things design.
Voice Over:We're excited to welcome Luis Carrillo, a true leader in the home furnishings industry with over 35 years of experience as the exclusive representative for Hickory Chair. Luis has made a significant impact on design. Originally from Havana and raised in Miami, he graduated from the University of Miami in 1982 and began his career at Robert Allen Fabrics. A devoted family man, he's been married to Yvette for 38 years and is proud of his two adult children, katrina and Luis III, who partners with him at Hickory Chair. Luis also celebrates 17 years of sobriety and holds a master's in counseling psychology, which he earned summa cum laude in 2015. Join us as we explore his inspiring journey and insights on design and personal. Growth us as we explore his inspiring journey and insights on design and personal growth.
Tiffany Woolley:Today we would like to welcome Louie Carrillo to the iDesign Lab podcast Welcome.
Luis Carrillo:Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
Tiffany Woolley:I know it's going to be a great conversation, so looking forward to this. We know Louie from Hickory Chair, but he has a very rich life that we're going to learn about, obviously through the eyes of design and we're going to have you start and tell us a little bit about yourself.
Luis Carrillo:I'd love to Thank you so much for having us and it was funny how we connected at market I know, and got the ball rolling and I went. Well, this is going to be great. I hope I hear from them and boom, there you were, scott. You followed up beautifully. Thank you so much. You know, mike, we had a great conversation.
Tiffany Woolley:We did we really did.
Scott Woolley:We walked away and we both were saying we enjoyed the conversation. Well, thank you.
Luis Carrillo:Thank you. You know life is funny. You never really know. You know you wake up and you try to do the best that you can every day and there's going to be challenges, but they're all opportunities to be challenged yourself and to grow and to surrender as well. I've had a lot of those in my life. But you know I started in this business.
Luis Carrillo:This was not a plan right you know it's gonna be a question yeah yeah, it was like, okay, how did you get started in this? Well, my girl, my, my sister's boyfriend was in the textile business okay and there was an opening. He was expanding and taking over some international business and they needed a rep for a date in Broward County, and this was before Robert Allen. I applied for the job, I liked it and that was my start and I was there.
Scott Woolley:Have you ever thought you would go in that direction? Career-wise Textiles yeah.
Luis Carrillo:What are textiles?
Luis Carrillo:Right you know my grandmother would sew. That's the only textiles in what we wear, right, you know? And it was interesting because they were I don't know if you remember the company Barrow they were out of. That was before my Robert Allen experience. That was like getting to the big leagues getting to Robert Allen, but you, you know, you had to pay your dues and right, and so we were selling to upholsterers and drapery work rooms and and that was an interesting job, you know, all of a sudden you go into an upholstery shop and where are my catalogs? Oh, they're under the six layers of dust over in that corner so it was.
Luis Carrillo:You learned how to do the business right, you know, and I learned such a very important rule that to this day, I did into effect on a regular basis, and that's show up and follow up.
Tiffany Woolley:Mm-hmm.
Luis Carrillo:If you show up and then you follow up, you're going to be successful.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah.
Luis Carrillo:In this business of repping Right, you know, which is what I've done for over 35 years now did you initially like enjoy getting into the textile industry?
Scott Woolley:was it a big learning curve or well, you know, first scott it.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah, I didn't know anything about it because and there's so much about it the construction of textiles you know, the warps and the weft, the fabric, what? Kind of language? What's a warp?
Scott Woolley:What's a?
Luis Carrillo:weft.
Scott Woolley:What is a warp? I don't even know what that is.
Luis Carrillo:So they do warps. It's the direction of the yarns, how they come on, because when you're running fabric at a mill, especially wovens, you use the same basic yarns and then you can change patterns by the weft yarns that come in on the sides so you can run. You can run a warp for 5, 10, 15 different patterns. All you do is you change the interweaving, the weft yarns, and that's what will change colors and pattern. So the first time I went to a weaving's, what will change colors and pattern? So I mean, the first time I went to a weaving mill, what's here was Valdez Weavers in.
Tiffany Woolley:Georgia.
Luis Carrillo:It was amazing, wow, and I didn't do it until yeah, I did it when I was at Robert Allen. It was just an amazing experience. It's different than a printing facility. Printing is just screens and the cloth is already woven and then you're just applying color and pattern onto it. When you're weaving fabrics, you know jacquards.
Tiffany Woolley:I know and layering.
Luis Carrillo:It's a beautiful thing. So I had to learn about all that it's an art and the structure and the tensile strength. And I learned it really well with Barrow because they had a piece goods division and a cut yardage division. What that means piece goods was all about selling rolls of fabric to people. Okay, bolts.
Luis Carrillo:Bolts people who would either warehouse them in their store, their manufacturing facility I was just thinking before I got here. There's a gentleman that I'm still in contact with. His name is Perry Solomon and Perry was the president of White Craft for a Tan back in the day. And Perry, he was very open first people ever to purchase a tropical pattern tapestry to be used on luxury outdoor furniture, and we're still friends to this day After all those years. He ran Pavilion Furniture for a while.
Luis Carrillo:And I repped Pavilion and he's at Woodard now. So he's been in the business 50 years, Great guy. But I was just thinking about Perry and how we're still connected. You know, this is such a business of relationships.
Tiffany Woolley:It is.
Luis Carrillo:And lifelong relationships, because once you're in, you're in.
Scott Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:You know, when I was with the fabrics, furniture was something that was far-fetched.
Tiffany Woolley:I was going to say was it on your radar or you were just?
Scott Woolley:So who were you selling to? Were you selling as a rep? You were selling the fabrics. Fabrics textiles.
Luis Carrillo:But who were you selling to? To interior designers mainly. Now Did they give?
Scott Woolley:you like a list of contacts, or did you just have to find well, your leads and who you're going to sell to yourself, or we're hunters yeah we're always hunting, there's always some, there's always prey out there.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah, you know, we sure there there was a core, because it was a commission only job oh yeah I've been commissioned only for been commission-only for 30-plus years.
Tiffany Woolley:Isn't that amazing, and I wouldn't have it any other way? No, and it's almost like you're independently your own boss, essentially as well. I mean, you're an entrepreneur.
Luis Carrillo:Well, it's exactly. I'm running my own business within the parameters that I'm given by the company. Like you've got to stay within these territorial limits. I love that You've got to stay within these territorial limits.
Tiffany Woolley:I love that.
Scott Woolley:It's capitalism Right, so you have to design your day to be diligent enough to bring in business and not kind of waste your time or your day Absolutely. Going to a job where you've got a boss and they're telling you what to do. Yeah.
Luis Carrillo:Let's see Like, for example, this A lot of self-discipline. This trip here, I'm doing this with you I this trip here, I'm doing this with you I'm going to see three other clients that are in the area.
Scott Woolley:Okay.
Luis Carrillo:Why not?
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:I'm here, you know. Go back to rule one show up and follow up Right right, that's really what it is, and you do have to prospect not as much as in the past, I've been with two great brands, which is Robert Allen and Hickory Chair.
Tiffany Woolley:And when I was with Robert Allen I became a multi-line rep the second half of my career there and is Robert Allen. I know it's not any longer, but when you became the rep for Robert Allen, obviously it was in Fabric, which was your familiar place at that time, and then going on to become a multi-line rep. How do other manufacturers feel bringing on other lines? Do they give you that parameter or do they?
Luis Carrillo:Well, that's a real good question, and it all depends on how important that one line is to you.
Tiffany Woolley:Okay.
Luis Carrillo:Why did I take on other lines? Because Robert Allen was the General Motors of high-end cut yardage.
Tiffany Woolley:I'm going to dive into that in a minute, but yeah, finish.
Luis Carrillo:So when they venture capitalists came in that whole deal, let's buy several companies, have them under one central control, minimize overhead and be able to still do what we do, but do it at a lower cost, whatever that is. When all that started happening, robert Allen started to lose a little bit of its edge. Robert Allen started to lose a little bit of its edge. So for 10, 12 of my 20 years at Robert Allen, I didn't need another line. The line provided sufficiently for my family.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:Now, when that line started decreasing in its ability to capture market, because I could go out there and do all of my, all the things that I do, but if we're not coming up with new product, if we're not being innovative, if we're losing our market share because of our efforts, then that's when I went to management.
Luis Carrillo:I go hey, listen, guys this is what I did last year, this is how we're tracking this year and this is what I did two years ago. We're going in the opposite direction. I need to feed my family and as long as it's not competing if it was another fabric line, they'd have issues with it. I wouldn't need to let them know and I just notify them. I'm telling you this is what I'm doing. If they have a problem with it, then they can tell me.
Scott Woolley:So how do you go out and find other lines to rep or know who's looking?
Luis Carrillo:for new reps, organically, I'm sure. So I went to High Point.
Tiffany Woolley:There you go.
Luis Carrillo:I was overwhelmed, I was like a kid in a candy store.
Tiffany Woolley:Oh my goodness.
Luis Carrillo:And I really had no purpose. It was more about the experience. So I didn't make any contacts during that time because it was just too much and it's almost like I needed a game plan.
Tiffany Woolley:Reconnaissance. So what I did? Yes, Taking it all in.
Luis Carrillo:I was just absorbing it. There's so much more out there, yeah. So I came back to Miami and I went to the trade showrooms that I had really good relationships with that carried multiple lines and they had a relationship with me. So who better to refer me to a line than someone that I've been working with for many years? So that's how it happened. Someone would ask somebody hey, I'm looking for someone in Florida. Now my territory was unique because a lot of furniture reps and this I think, was interesting, also a little niche for me. I only did Dade Broward in the Keys for Robert Allen. I also did international for them. I traveled Central South America and the Caribbean, but that business kind of dwindled with the high value of the dollar. So that was an. I was involved in international finance.
Luis Carrillo:I didn't know it because our currency made a big impact on their ability to buy our product. So just having Dade Broward in the Keys as a territory allowed some manufacturers to say you know something, we want to do a little niche here. Let's carve out this little piece. The rep may be living in Orlando and doing you know northern territories, or living in West Palm or Naples and not wanting a desire to come down to Miami. You know Miami and Broward you know you better bring your passport.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah, it's kind of its own world. Exactly, it's its own territory.
Luis Carrillo:It's a crazy system down there. I mean, they often refer to it as the Banana Republic also down there but it was an opportunity for them to step out and try something new and it worked. I probably had at one time about 10 different lines wow, but the majority of the revenue was coming from three, you know. Or the 80 20 rule 20 of your business comes from 80 from, uh, 80 of your business from 20 of your customers. Right, and it worked kind of the same way, but it was. It was a great way to get into the door right Right.
Scott Woolley:And basically all this time you're really just dealing with interior decorators.
Luis Carrillo:Yes, interior designers, trade showrooms Trade showrooms are very important.
Tiffany Woolley:So what's a trade showroom Like? Explain that to our viewers or listeners.
Scott Woolley:Would that be like a Lee Parker?
Tiffany Woolley:No.
Scott Woolley:No, okay.
Luis Carrillo:Lee.
Tiffany Woolley:Parker is like a workroom, not a-.
Luis Carrillo:A trade showroom Dakota.
Tiffany Woolley:Right and which. I was hoping you would bring up Dakota.
Luis Carrillo:For example, century who? Is our parent company has a trade showroom there. Yes, so trade showrooms, and they're throughout major metropolitan areas. There's a couple in New York, 200 Lex in the D&D building. La has got a big one. Houston I think Dallas has a big one, so there are places where companies that don't sell directly to retail consumers display their products to be sold through interior designers.
Scott Woolley:Right, okay.
Luis Carrillo:Their partners are the interior design industry, the interior designer that's going to buy below retail.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:And market up.
Tiffany Woolley:And personalize it.
Scott Woolley:So the average consumer does not realize that Correct. The average person thinks interior designer, interior decorator is too expensive or they're going to be expensive, but doesn't realize that it's a lot of value.
Luis Carrillo:Well, you know there's First. You're going to have access to lines that you didn't.
Tiffany Woolley:Hickory chair is not available, you can shop it, you can romance it online, but you can't buy it online and can't customize it.
Luis Carrillo:So you can only get it through a design professional.
Scott Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:And there's a lot of lines like that, contrary to the European models that like to manufacture and sell direct, like Roche-Boubois.
Tiffany Woolley:Okay, yes.
Luis Carrillo:They're all about branding, but who are they selling to?
Tiffany Woolley:Consumers.
Luis Carrillo:And consumer.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah.
Luis Carrillo:They don't even offer a trade program.
Tiffany Woolley:Oh, I know.
Luis Carrillo:So it all depends which way you want to go. We've always as a company, hikotier was very innovative in many things that it did. It was one of the first companies to shift gears from retail to interior designers, because we kind of saw that the retail business it's a difficult business because you know as a manufacturer you come up with 10 sets and you got to make 100 of each and have them available. So then you're going to sell them at market to all these different retail stores and if it doesn't sell, you're stuck with the product. So they even changed the way they made business that they made furniture.
Luis Carrillo:We make parts and then assemble. Make furniture to orders one at a time, as opposed to doing multiple units. Correct, but that only works if you're selling to interior designers.
Tiffany Woolley:The high-end, yeah, the high-end.
Scott Woolley:It's one of the reasons I keep saying this on this podcast and why we started this podcast is to really try to help educate consumers the value that an interior designer, interior decorator, brings to the table. When you're going and redoing your home, or you just bought your first home, they should be thinking about going to an interior designer because at the end of the day, they most likely will save money, time and have a much better product than just gawking into a furniture store. It's like this chair. This is what they're goingawking into a furniture store.
Scott Woolley:It's like this chair. This is what they're going to sell in the furniture store. But go to a hickory. You can change the fabric, you can change the this chair can be done in so many different.
Tiffany Woolley:Literally a limitless skew.
Luis Carrillo:Correct. You can do the outside, the outarms and outbacks, in one fabric. You can do the wealth in a different. You can do the in arms and in backs.
Tiffany Woolley:The sizing. I mean you can do all kinds of things Leather, fabric combinations.
Scott Woolley:And people. The average person out there doesn't understand it. It doesn't realize it, it doesn't know that.
Luis Carrillo:It's an extremely value-added service that interior designers bring to the quality of a home. Now we moved up to Vero Beach from Miami.
Tiffany Woolley:Okay.
Luis Carrillo:And my house is a little hickory chair showroom.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:Okay.
Tiffany Woolley:That's a perk.
Luis Carrillo:We did some little touch-ups on paints here and there, but the furniture speaks.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:Okay, I'm going to say it my house looks like a little model.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:It looks gorgeous, beautiful, and people come in and they go, wow, now my wife has got great taste. She's always had great taste. When I first got into textiles I was a blue, red, white and black guy. You know the basic colors. I think we're very similar.
Tiffany Woolley:This industry can only make you love and appreciate multitudes of the myriad of what's available. I mean you want more.
Luis Carrillo:And so she taught me more about color. Was she ever in the business. She's always been very artistically inclined and when I started with Robert Allen, I got to the point where we were able to hit certain goals and they were able to help me bring her on board.
Tiffany Woolley:Really.
Luis Carrillo:Well, we had an incentive. I love that If you hit this goal, we're going to pay you more commission so that you can bring in your wife, so she can handle more administrative work for you so you can be out there and doing what you do best, which is be in front of clients, right.
Scott Woolley:So you moved to Vero Beach from Miami.
Luis Carrillo:Yes.
Scott Woolley:But when I think about that, I think about A. It's beautiful in Vero Beach, but it's not like it is in Miami or Dade County in terms of the population and the amount of interior decorators and designers.
Tiffany Woolley:Oh you'd be, surprised decorators and designers oh, you'd be surprised, were you? Well, am I wrong? No, you're absolutely right.
Scott Woolley:Timing it again brings a huge I mean, I listened to tiffany and she keeps on talking about we need to start doing more north, more north, more north.
Luis Carrillo:Well, okay, hickory chair is. It's not your grandmother's hickory chair anymore, right we have that we should talk about that I know.
Tiffany Woolley:I do want to talk about that.
Luis Carrillo:We have a lot of that, but what's happened is Miami and Fort Lauderdale is very contemporary.
Tiffany Woolley:I know I say they're not into the heirloom furniture anymore.
Luis Carrillo:No, they're not. Legacy is not part of their vocabulary.
Tiffany Woolley:They're a quick fix, okay.
Luis Carrillo:I'm going to share Cold. I they're a quick fix and I'll. Okay. I'm going to share Cold. I'll share a little story.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah, okay.
Luis Carrillo:And I know not directly, I was not involved but a furniture retailer in Miami has been there for many, many years and he had a client and the construction of the home was probably I don't know $7 to $8 million Okay. Right, and beautiful chandeliers, beautiful artwork, but when it came down to the furnishings, the budget was $250,000. That doesn't fit, no, but because there's no value attached to heirloom furniture.
Luis Carrillo:I know I can sell the house. I can sell the Rolex. I can sell the Ferrari I'm going to look nice with my $20,000 purses. I can sell those too but furniture I don't put the same value in it. It is amazing. It's almost like a short-mindedness. I don't know if it has to do with the fact that in Miami in particular maybe Broward there's a lot of new money. There's pockets of old money. But when you go to places like Vero Beach, palm Beach, that's money, that's been around.
Tiffany Woolley:I mean and I'm not talking snob, I'm talking the appreciation of quality, well-made pieces that are going to last for several lifetimes and people who set a table and people who truly entertain at home, and you know that's like the heirloom qualities that I mentioned. I struggle with that even here with clients. You know people want things quickly People. You know, when I started in this business, I was only doing complete custom, all high end. Doing complete custom, all high end.
Tiffany Woolley:And then, just as business changed and I started doing younger families who were just getting started, you know some of them couldn't understand or grasp and I would say I would come home, scott, I'm like these people. They spend this much to send their kids to school, they spent this much on a car, this much on, you know, traveling and like how can you know a five thousand dollar sofa be so out of the realm when you're living and sitting on it every single day? The good news is I do think that I see the younger generation actually kind of pivoting and coming back. The whole grand millennial, uh, aesthetic is a thing and I kind of feel like we get to play into that and bring hickory along, at least in our firm.
Luis Carrillo:I look at myself as a consumer of furnishings, and my taste did not become as sophisticated as it is today until I was a little older.
Tiffany Woolley:Where I was appreciating things a little more.
Luis Carrillo:It was more about okay, what's my budget First, what are my needs?
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah.
Luis Carrillo:And then what's my budget and how can I match those together and find something that's decent? Now, most of that furniture I don't have anymore because I wasn't able to purchase the pieces at that time.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:Now, I'm not able to buy them now either. I just get them at a great price.
Tiffany Woolley:Price yeah, that's the perks.
Luis Carrillo:My budget is not my client's client's budget, but that's all right it is. We're here to satisfy those needs anyway.
Tiffany Woolley:Yes.
Luis Carrillo:But you know the services of an interior designer, and these are the things that I think are extraordinary. It's the layering.
Tiffany Woolley:It really the layering of the textures.
Luis Carrillo:Oh, that's what makes it, and we see it all the time.
Tiffany Woolley:I know.
Luis Carrillo:You know, we've had the pleasure sometimes of being involved with installs or getting photos from the final installation. With installs or getting photos from the final installation, and it's just that, layering those minute details that make such an incredible difference.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:You know, and those are kind of the things that we also offer with Hickory Chair.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:That you can really make a one-of-a-kind piece.
Tiffany Woolley:Were you involved with Hickory Chair and Robert Allen at the same time?
Luis Carrillo:No, okay, it was a God incidence that I got involved.
Tiffany Woolley:A heaven wink.
Luis Carrillo:Absolutely. I got involved with Hickory Chair, you know, when I was at Robert Allen. For all those years, henrodown was the brand that you wanted to work for.
Tiffany Woolley:Other people said that.
Luis Carrillo:Just because of the volume. And Henrodown was made in the USA. They were that high-end quality. Well, they went offshore.
Voice Over:Hickory Chair stayed in the States.
Luis Carrillo:It didn't go anywhere. So I started to learn more about Hickory Chair. So I ended my relationship with Robert Allen and I'm out seeing a client and I'm talking to the client and letting him know. Yeah, you know, ended with Robert and I just wasn't working out for either one of us so it was time to go. But if you know of anybody you know, let me know. So we're chatting. You know, talk about relationships. These me know, right. So we're chatting. It's all about relationships. These have become friends. And then comes a gentleman that looks familiar but I didn't know, and he's saying goodbye to the owners of the business, telling them listen, this is my last month.
Luis Carrillo:It's been great working with you for all these years, but my fiancee has put her foot down and I have to move to Atlanta to be with her full time. So if you know of anybody, let me know, and I happen to be sitting amongst them, standing right there. They pointed me and I raised my hand like if I was in second grade.
Luis Carrillo:I'm available. Wow, that was with Hickory, that was with Hickory Chair. That happened towards the end of March and I interviewed in my things a little bit before market and after market and I started May 15th. So tell us about Hickory Chair.
Scott Woolley:What's the history behind it? It's made in the States, it's North Carolina, correct?
Luis Carrillo:Yes, sir, well, the company started off in 1911.
Tiffany Woolley:Really the same facility that it's at right now, so it's over 100 years old.
Luis Carrillo:Absolutely, and we were called Hickory Chair because the only thing that we made was a chair. That was it. Other people made the tables. It was that specific the manufacturing, and we've been around since 1911. So imagine all the things that the company has been through.
Tiffany Woolley:Family owned and operated. We've had several owners. Okay.
Luis Carrillo:And we went from that family ownership privately held to investments. Okay, Remember Furniture Brands International when they did all the conglomerate buy? Yeah, we were part of that group. And then Heritage Home Group bought us from them. And now we're back to furniture people.
Tiffany Woolley:Okay.
Luis Carrillo:People, that a family, the Shuford family.
Tiffany Woolley:Okay, right, we've heard of the—.
Luis Carrillo:Alex Shuford and his family third generation furniture folks. I mean they when they came in to speak to us the day that I went I went to bed one night at market working for a company.
Luis Carrillo:Overnight I was unemployed and I woke up an independent contractor for another one. Wow, it was insane, wow. So Alex came to talk to us and he said something very interesting. He said you know, we have a responsibility to people. At the time, hickory Chair, I think, had like 450, 400-some-odd employees and I think as a company I think they were a century and their companies had over 1,000. So there was a lot of responsibility. And he said you know, we know that there are years where we're going to make money, there are years we're going to break even and there are going to be years where we make, lose money. But we're here for the long run. We have a responsibility to our neighbors, to the families that provide for us and the services that they do, and so we're in this for the long run that they do, and so we're in it. We're in this for the long run.
Luis Carrillo:And very sharp people, very conservative, brilliant hmm, I mean so Hickory chair, which was, which is an heirloom brand correct it's now. It's probably one of the best furniture manufacturing families that we can ever have dreamed of being with.
Tiffany Woolley:Where did the Shuford family start?
Luis Carrillo:Well Century.
Tiffany Woolley:Century okay.
Luis Carrillo:Century, so they are Rockhouse Farms.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah, Rockhouse Farms.
Luis Carrillo:Rockhouse Farms family of brands. Right Is a holding company that owns Century Hickory Chair, highland House, maitland Smith.
Tiffany Woolley:Hancock.
Luis Carrillo:Moore, Cabot Wren, which is a contract line, and Jessica Charles.
Tiffany Woolley:Wow.
Luis Carrillo:And you really have a good, better best menu of brands. You really have a good, better, best menu of brands, so it's nicely diversified their portfolio and we're treated as a family of brands.
Tiffany Woolley:I know you feel that actually between even your reps. They all feel that and that's like the feeling that you have when you're in market too.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah we're all friendly, but you know, you've heard of sibling rivalries right. So that does exist. We want to get the one up on our siblings, but don't come against us if you're not a sibling, because then we will. You know, get together and attack the enemy, if you will, I would think that hickory is probably their jewel. I would say so. You know we're different. Century is an amazing company. They have a much broader offering than we do. Highland House is also a great company.
Tiffany Woolley:Love.
Luis Carrillo:Highland House. Yeah, you know, they do some beautiful things, hickory Cherry. We they do some beautiful things, hickory Cherry. We just do some unique pieces that at a capacity that is really unique to us. You know when.
Scott Woolley:But everything is custom correct, Everything is made to order.
Luis Carrillo:Everything is made to order. Over 90% of the products are made there in Hickory. We do import, outsource some items, things that have stone or metal. All of our case goods. No one does case goods in the States anymore. Most of the case, goods are imported and finished in the States.
Scott Woolley:How big is the line?
Luis Carrillo:Oh goodness, scott, that's a difficult question In the hundreds of items, oh, thousands.
Tiffany Woolley:Really.
Luis Carrillo:No, and then you have the all different the partner brands.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah, like with the designers.
Luis Carrillo:Or the alliterations of a piece, because if I can make the sofa from a chair to 120 inches and everything in the middle, those are all different skews. If you are one skew but different alliterations of it yeah, I would say thousands, on a yearly basis.
Scott Woolley:From a design standpoint, is there a lot of new designs or new things coming out? Oh, yeah, and is, is, is, but is it like the things that are going to be coming out this year, in 2025, were they created in the order of last year, three years ago? Because some companies are two, three years ahead. Oh, absolutely.
Luis Carrillo:For example, there are collections that are in the works for 26, april 26 and october 26. Uh, you have to be that far ahead, right? Because, don't forget, it's not only, it's not only the design. Then you have to do the engineering and then you have to do, you know, the, your, your mock-ups, your, your prototypes for market right and then, and then we are. We're furniture snobs, scott, we're gonna. If it doesn't, if anybody that's involved with many making that piece does not give the thumbs up, it doesn't, it doesn't go into production. Okay.
Luis Carrillo:So we, we, the so it's got a layer, a lot of layers of design in terms of approval well, from from the guy guy who springs up the spring decks, from the guy who does the upholstery, from the ladies and the gentlemen who do all the sewing. All those people are involved in the process how the fabric is laid out. You know, this is looking good, this seam should be a little better. So everyone has a say in the piece before okay, we're. Okay, you get all thumbs up from all departments. Now we can move forward.
Scott Woolley:So do they bring you or reps like you involved? Do you think you can sell this? What do you think they can?
Luis Carrillo:Well, that happens at market, At market okay.
Tiffany Woolley:At market. Do they get feedback after market?
Luis Carrillo:Do you?
Tiffany Woolley:strategize amongst each other.
Luis Carrillo:Tuesday at our wrap-up meeting, we go through all the new introductions as a team and we will give the thumbs up or thumbs down. We will give our opinion and what we felt, based on the feedback that we've gotten from our appointments and visits through market of what people were leaning towards. And, mind you, you're going to have several different opinions because we're all from the whole country, so the Southeast doesn't buy like the Northeast.
Tiffany Woolley:Correct, and somebody has to manage those expectations. So then our head of merchandising.
Luis Carrillo:who's phenomenal. What a team. What a team Megan Barrett.
Tiffany Woolley:Well, and I feel like Hickory does a lot of brand ambassadors, or they work directly with designers creating lines of furniture. What does that process look like?
Luis Carrillo:Oh, it's the same.
Tiffany Woolley:The same.
Luis Carrillo:But it's the same in a certain way. Hickory Chair, we've got items in the line from the 30s that we're still selling.
Tiffany Woolley:That's so wild Really, which I love that, though yeah.
Luis Carrillo:We were one of the first companies to bring outside designers in to help us design a lot Really. Yeah, to design a collection, why not? I agree, designers in to help us design, really, yeah, design to design a collection, why not? I agree, you know. So that's been something that we've done for many, many years. Mark hapton was a very successful designer that before he died. And then alexa hampton yeah, was one of the designers also do they promote?
Scott Woolley:they promote those designers on the line.
Luis Carrillo:Well, Scott, they have their own collections.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:Suzanne Kastler.
Tiffany Woolley:Right, Suzanne Kastler is our long well right now they're licensees. Yes, that's, right Okay.
Luis Carrillo:Okay, so what they do, they design, they bring to us, we review, we go through it, can we make these changes? And okay, okay, we're adding 15 pieces. By the way, this last market that you guys were at, we introduced over 122 new pieces of furniture the most that we've introduced in in in since 1999 that's a lot of pieces.
Luis Carrillo:You know, we are your marketplace, tiffany, so we felt that we need to provide as much as we can, and we did a little bit of everything. There was a lot of Hickory Chair internal design merchandise and there were several pieces from every designer that we have, because, you know, hickory Chair is the brand and they have their own textiles as well some of them do, yes, but not necessarily through us.
Luis Carrillo:Like, uh, I believe david phoenix has some collections with kravit, right, right, uh, and they also they have lighting lines. Some of them are involved with lighting, which is fine, you know, involved with area rugs, a wallpaper, you know, do whatever you need, tougs, wallpaper, you know, do whatever you need to do, but we, you know, you're here with us for furniture only, and so there's a wonderful collaboration. We work very well, you know, like, for example, ray Booth. Ray Booth and David Phoenix. They have a modern edge to them, a sophisticated modern edge. Susan Havel is mid-century modern, she's an artist, so you see that in her styling, very different and unique. And then Suzanne Kastler, you know she's very European influenced, her scale is a little smaller.
Tiffany Woolley:I know I love her scale. These are some beautiful designers.
Scott Woolley:These are designers. Do you know what most of them were before? Little smaller, I know I love this beautiful designers. These are designers. What, what? What? Do you know what most of them were before like? Were they an interior decorators or were they?
Luis Carrillo:just furniture. Oh yeah, oh, scott, they. They were all well, well-known, successful interior designers in their own, so did they come?
Scott Woolley:present to hickory. Yes, yes, or does Hickory find them?
Luis Carrillo:I think I haven't been involved in that process. From what I understand, it's a collaborative effort. If we see someone that we like what their look is, we may reach out and start a conversation and see if they're interested or not, because there's always new talent out there right.
Tiffany Woolley:So would you say that's a way that hickory chair tries to stay current is by these collaborations I I think it's as a company, we we stay current on our own okay okay, I.
Luis Carrillo:I think this is like a value added. It's a team effort. They're doing their specific collections based on what their aesthetic and their design profile is right, and then we're kind of filling gaps.
Luis Carrillo:every once in a while we come up with a great program like a wonderful chair that's done great for years Now. We've added six different arms to it and a bunch of different bases, you know. So we'll do things like that. We'll look within our product line and say, okay, uh, where do we have opportunity? You know, if we were to offer this and and we get involved in that, uh, at the wrap-up meetings we'll even throw out some suggestions. Hey, we heard that if we could do this and offer these options, it could be something that would work, and we have a great dialogue with product development. I mean, we are the boots on the ground, correct?
Tiffany Woolley:But they also have.
Luis Carrillo:Their vision is intense.
Scott Woolley:I ask these questions because I've seen over the years just recently Tiffany has clients and recently there were three beds you did for a client and the client. She couldn't pick the exact thing that the client wanted and the client didn't like really anything that you were picking out. So tiffany started sketching what she thought the client wanted as a bed and the client's like, yes, that's it. And then she has me get on the phone because she has two different companies. She works with one in North Carolina and one in California. Send these sketches to them and see what the price will be and I'll get on the phone with them and tell them the rest of the details. And she did. I don't know, maybe four months later five months later the beds are being delivered Custom, but she's done this for chairs and tables and I've said to her numerous times you should start putting a book together of all these things that you can present.
Tiffany Woolley:We'll get there. We'll get there.
Scott Woolley:But this all goes in hand with what is the design process. So people who are listening to this podcast understand with Hickory, because what I learned it was the first time for me going to market. Tiffany goes all the time and I was, like you said earlier, how you were overwhelmed. I couldn't believe what High Point was. We were heading to the airport, leaving after about four days of being there, and I said to her you need to bring like most of the clients here, because in two days walking around, you can appreciate so much.
Scott Woolley:They can pick so much out Well you appreciate. But I learned you know and especially with your company the amount of selections, like we just talked about. What's the process that people should understand, like they pick a sofa, but now there's so many different selections it's pretty easy for someone to people like hickory make it easy well, you know, if it's, if it takes more than three steps, then we have a problem.
Luis Carrillo:Okay, that, so that seems pretty easy Because what I learned is it is pretty easy. You know, you got to think one, two, three.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah.
Luis Carrillo:Okay so pick a frame, pick an arm, pick a base. Those are your three main things, and this particular it's called the Jules chair, best-selling chair. It's kept the lights on at the factory forever.
Tiffany Woolley:Remember, I showed it to him.
Luis Carrillo:That is the chair right, and the funny thing is we've been copied on many occasions often imitated, never duplicated never duplicated, because they cannot achieve the comfort right they can't, and it's that you know.
Luis Carrillo:You know that that thumbs up process right. That's what that's all about. If it doesn't sit just right, if and it's the pitch on the back and the support underneath if that's not the way that it needs to be for how the chair was designed, and then we got to go back but each one of those three steps that you mentioned, like the legs, there's, but then there's who knows how many different colors or stains.
Luis Carrillo:Oh, goodness, there's 40 to okay. So we have over 40 different stains and paints. But then if we don't have one that you like, tell me which one you'd like and we'll send you. We'll mock up a sample and send it to you for your approval, right.
Tiffany Woolley:It's limitless.
Luis Carrillo:So fabrics over 40% of all of our upholstery is COM. Com is when the designer sends us the fabrics. Correct. So what we do as far as saying, okay, how are we going to select fabrics in the future? Right, well, we need to see what the trends are now. So we'll literally go to every COM that comes in and cut off a little, two by two.
Tiffany Woolley:That's so, what a fun.
Luis Carrillo:Keep it in bags and then go to product development. The team puts them all on boards to see where the market is trending. Now, it's not telling us where it's going to go, but it tells us where it is and it can kind of give us good direction. So yes, imagine. Behind the scenes research. Imagine the scenes research behind the scenes. Cool, right so so the designer is always involved, whether they know it or not, I love that you know, feedback I mean we'll have.
Luis Carrillo:We have something that's called special construction. Now, this is this is something that no, none of the bigger manufacturers do, because it's impossible to do, it's very time-consuming and you have to be nimble to be able to do it. Okay, louie, I love this credenza that you have. It only comes in either a two, a four or a six-door, so you have some flexibility. But I have a big space. I want to make it shallower, but wider. Yeah, okay, how wide? Give me your dimensions. Okay, let me submit them to our engineering department. I'll send the the item number and the size that they're looking for and within 72 hours I will get a yay or a nay and how much of an upcharge to produce that piece. Now, that's something that you can only get done at local workrooms or companies like the one that you mentioned.
Tiffany Woolley:Yes, furniture.
Luis Carrillo:That they were going to make the piece. Now that's a very expensive proposition when you're designing yours right.
Tiffany Woolley:Correct and you lose the name of buying a hickory piece which goes back to that legacy, mindset and customization. Well, we've spoken like how exciting hickory is and one other thing I wanted to kind of bring into it it became a family business for you, not only with your wife, but while we were there we met your son. What did? How does that evolve and what does that look like?
Luis Carrillo:I'm getting emotional. I mean it is. That's how special it is to me. I know, Hold on. I got to bite my lip for a second, so it was happenstance. It was another God incidence. I never intended for him to be involved in the business, but he'd been trained and I didn't even know it when my kids were 15 years old. They're five years apart, yeah, six years apart. When they were 15, I would take them out with me to see clients to learn how to drive. Come with Dad, today You're going to learn driving up and down I-95.
Voice Over:Oh, my God, I love that. I'm going to be in the passenger seat. I got a driver for the day Get work done.
Tiffany Woolley:It was like a win-win. It was phenomenal, I love it.
Luis Carrillo:So I did phenomenal. So I did that with my daughter and she learned how to drive. And you know, rain, all the all the difficult situations I go. This is, this is life, you know. And then I did it with my son, but when my son I would have him. Hey, son, I'm a little bee. Can you, can you take in the next two books and and talk about him? My voice is a little hoarse and what I say, dad, and let's just tell him feel the fabric and show him the price point in the back and and he'd do it and and you know he didn't feel, you know, fearful or anything. He was with his dad and and his clients are his dad's friends, so he's just talking about stuff that his dad talks about. So he felt real comfortable. So, you know, covet hit and he had been interning at a consulting company, uh, and he graduated early and that final year was terrible because they were stuck I know that generation it's and uh.
Luis Carrillo:So when it was time they said listen, when you graduate, come see us and we'll see. So it was time he graduated and went to see me. He says we can't help you, we've lost too many clients during COVID. So that was August. I spoke to my wife and I said honey, would you mind if I talked to Louie about maybe coming up the market? And he says I think it's a great idea. I spoke to him. You want to try this out? No guarantees.
Tiffany Woolley:Right, I don't know.
Luis Carrillo:You may like it, you may not, you may run towards it, you may run away from it, but I'll ask permission to bring you. And at the time Alex Shuford was running our company. I reached out to Alex and I said, hey, I'd like to just bring my son introduce company. I reached out to Alex and I said, hey, I'd like to just bring my son introduce him to the business. Don't know what he wants to do. And he said, oh, please, we'd love to meet him Next generation.
Luis Carrillo:Remember we were talking about earlier in the program, about how I was with fabrics and about getting into furniture. Well, it was like the good old boys club, you know, and you would have this. Generational openings were not available, you know. It was very difficult to get into it, you know. And so there was a blessing when he was open-minded to it. And so my son and I, we studied on all the product and we went up to Mark and I told him son, you're going to be on a six-day interview. So whether this is something you want to do or not, just know that you're going to be watched.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:Did he deal with people coming? On oh my goodness, I got caught in a pickle where I had to deal with somebody else and someone else showed up and it was one of our top accounts and he jumped in there and was he owned it. He owned it. I mean, I got comments back from the buyers oh my goodness, he's phenomenal. So what's he doing now? He is my partner.
Tiffany Woolley:What a blessing.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah, he's working. He's in his third year with us, with me. He's working on the west coast of Florida. He moved to the Fort Myers Punta Gorda area.
Tiffany Woolley:What a great area.
Luis Carrillo:Beautiful new community called Babcock Ranch. I'll put in a plug for them. Oh my God phenomenal. He's very, very happy there. So he works from Marco Island to St Pete that's his territory. He got married this last summer. So did my daughter. My kids like to abuse this july and august weddings.
Tiffany Woolley:It was phenomenal literally yes the same year.
Scott Woolley:Yes, oh my yes yes, it was a month apart.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah, yeah, it was a blur, oh my god. But you, we're so thrilled for them. They're so happy, you know, when you see a couple get together and they're better together than they are apart. That's what I see in our new family members.
Tiffany Woolley:The holidays were probably really fun this year.
Luis Carrillo:Yes, we did Thanksgiving up in Vero with two grandpuppies and we did christmas down in miami. Oh yeah, it was great. Yeah, I love that that's amazing.
Tiffany Woolley:Well, it's such a full circle business. I'm hoping that we would have the same you know fortune one day, that one of our kids would come and take part in what we do here. So it's here. So it is like the home industry is a big family, so it's like under the same roof, you know.
Luis Carrillo:Absolutely Well. Who are you going to leave something like this to? You know, you sacrifice a lot, but one of the things that I had to learn in working with my son was okay, he's my son, but now he's my partner. So I had to change how I was communicating, how I was interacting. You know, ask for opinions. I mean, I refer to him as a new and improved version, because he is, you know, he has a different skillset. You know and and and. As as parents, how do we, how do we capitalize on that and surrender somewhat and and allow them to flourish in an environment that that we're? We're not parents.
Luis Carrillo:We become associates or partners support yeah, and and and it's, and sometimes you got to bite your. You got to bite your tongue and not say something or say it at another time. You know which is which, which is hey, hey, I'm Cuban, I got that blood, so I got to bite hard and not say it. But it's been a learning experience and I think it's improved our relationship tremendously.
Tiffany Woolley:Oh, I would assume, yeah, my first 11 years in business.
Scott Woolley:My partner was my father. We had grocery stores here in South Florida. It was tough.
Luis Carrillo:I bet Well, that's a different generation. It's two of us working together. It's a different generation. Yeah, yeah.
Tiffany Woolley:And I feel like our generation is a lot more open-minded to surrender and to communicate and collaborate versus dictate.
Luis Carrillo:Exactly, I lived in a 10-acre farm down in Redland. Are you familiar with the Redland area down in Dade County?
Luis Carrillo:Yeah yeah, yeah, it's a breadbasket for the Midwest. That's where green beans, tomatoes, all that stuff is grown down there. And I had a place where my dad was helping me. We had 22 horse stables and wow, and so he was. He's always been involved with horses his whole life. So I go hey, dad, I'm gonna do this. You want to come live with us? So he had his own, he and my mom, and. But it was difficult and you're talking about that, that other generation, you know, uh it, he was still the boss.
Tiffany Woolley:Right.
Luis Carrillo:You know, even though it was my, my place, you know my business, he was still the boss.
Scott Woolley:My dad and I butted heads like, yeah, he was a tough, tough character.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah, it's.
Scott Woolley:Yes, I can relate, I mean you talk about, like you know, having your kids drive you. I kind of went through the same thing. I was 12 years old. I was 12, 13 years old. I was driving my father to work.
Luis Carrillo:I love it.
Scott Woolley:But it was on Saturdays and Sundays, but at 5 o'clock in the morning and in the winter this was in New York, on Long Island, and in the winter this was in New York, on Long Island, and in the wintertime, and it's zero degrees out. He would open up the windows in the car and I'm driving freezing and he would say to me over and over every single weekend, no, every weekend. He would say to me you like this, you enjoy this? I said, of course I don't, getting up at four o'clock in the morning and all this bitter cold, and I'd say, no, of course not. Well, that's why you better do good in school, so you don't do this the rest of your life?
Luis Carrillo:wonderful lesson, yeah, but then I graduated from college.
Scott Woolley:And where am I? I'm in back in the grocery stores with him. You know we he had moved here and retired, but we opened up one and then grew it to 42 of them.
Luis Carrillo:Wow, fabulous. Well, let's see, but the hook, there was no snow, correct yeah there you go, correct Great weather.
Tiffany Woolley:Great weather.
Scott Woolley:So we have a couple of questions we'd like to end the podcast with oh sure.
Tiffany Woolley:They're fun little, just design tidbits, since you're in the industry. One is what is a favorite design element like in your home, or just something that piques your interest?
Luis Carrillo:There are. Whenever I see upholstery and wood detailing, we have these chairs that are hickory chairs, alexander chairs, and they have this wood framing on the outback that then ties into the arm and it's just a little sliver, it's an inch of wood. That's just saying hi.
Voice Over:I'm pretty, I know it, you know.
Luis Carrillo:And the contrast, with the fabric and it's just that, because you don't need to have it there.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah.
Luis Carrillo:It's not a need.
Tiffany Woolley:Yeah.
Luis Carrillo:It's just that special touch, it's those little things that stand out to me. You know, I'm very visual and if I see it like if I see a flaw, I'll see it forever until I fix it.
Tiffany Woolley:I like that.
Luis Carrillo:You know, and I'll continue to see it. Okay, I got it. Okay, stop it.
Tiffany Woolley:Stop it. I see you.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah, so that would be the Alexander chairs, and it's the way that the arm detail of the wood Imagine the top of the arm is upholstered. There's a sliver of wood underneath.
Voice Over:And so the wood.
Luis Carrillo:Imagine the top of the armor is upholstered. There's a sliver of wood underneath, and then it's upholstered underneath, and then that same detail goes along the back of the outback of the chair.
Tiffany Woolley:Amazing.
Luis Carrillo:It's just so pretty.
Tiffany Woolley:It is.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah, so elegant. I think it's those little architectural details, Detailing Correct that make it, oh wow.
Tiffany Woolley:They make you appreciate them.
Scott Woolley:Yeah, yeah. So, thinking about design, is there a restaurant that comes to mind that you would say the design is just outstanding. I love the design of that restaurant.
Tiffany Woolley:It could even be the lack of design.
Luis Carrillo:Well, there was this one restaurant that we went to in Miami. It was a little loud, but it's called the Bayshore Club, newly opened, probably a couple of years old. It's on the water, modern design style, open air.
Tiffany Woolley:The vibe.
Luis Carrillo:The vibe, the music, the bars on one side, the energy. It's Coconut Grove at its best and the food is good and Coconut Grove on the like near Monty's or yeah it's closer.
Scott Woolley:Like the Whole Foods over there. Yeah, in that area.
Luis Carrillo:Yes, it's on the water. It's where the Dinner Key Auditorium used to be. If you go down 27th Avenue, you hit South Bayshore, you make a left and then you make your first right. You're going to find it. It's right next to the City Hall, right next to the Miami City Hall, which is an Art Deco building, very, very funky. It used to be the Pan Am um for the amphibious planes you know pan am had, oh yeah that would go to where the bahamas oh, cuba, cuba yes, yeah, uh what, uh, that was their place.
Luis Carrillo:Yeah, so they converted that to miami city hall. Great. And inside the building they have all these mosaics.
Tiffany Woolley:And they're original.
Luis Carrillo:Yes, it's a beautiful building. Oh, my goodness, you should go and go to the Bayshore Club. You'll have a great meal.
Tiffany Woolley:So that is so cool, so cool. Do you have a favorite coffee table book?
Luis Carrillo:Okay, ray Booth. Okay, suzanne Casper's got some beautiful books, she does. But Ray Booth has a book. What was it? Evocative Interiors, I think is the name Ray. Forgive me if I got it wrong.
Tiffany Woolley:Oh, I like evocative.
Luis Carrillo:But the preface or the intro, that's done on the book was written by Bobby McAlpin McAlpin, designed out of Tennessee, who was Ray's professor at Auburn, who then brought Ray from New York to come work with him. The words that they use to describe design is something I've never heard before.
Scott Woolley:Really yeah. What's the name of the book?
Luis Carrillo:I think it's Evocative Design.
Tiffany Woolley:Is it Rosoli or?
Luis Carrillo:I don't know who I'm going to look it up. I'll find it before we leave In the photography. It's all about evoking that thing that you get when you like. When I look at the Alexander chair, that is evoking an emotion inside of me. It's more than it's a feel, a touch, a look, a sensation that they strive for.
Tiffany Woolley:In their interior.
Luis Carrillo:So that book is amazing.
Tiffany Woolley:Yes, I love that. I love that. I want to go look.
Luis Carrillo:And forgive me, Ray, if I got the wrong name. I don't sell books.
Tiffany Woolley:Well, that's awesome. I think on that, evoking of a great feeling today was wonderful. Thank you for joining us.
Luis Carrillo:Oh, it is my pleasure you know, these are so much fun. Thank you for taking a risk on this. Non-stocking sales rep up in High.
Tiffany Woolley:Point. I love it, we love it, we're grateful, thank you.
Luis Carrillo:My pleasure.
Tiffany Woolley:My pleasure.
Voice Over:Until next time. Idesign Labs Podcast is an SW Group production in association with the Five Star and TW Interiors. To learn more about iDesign Lab or TW Interiors, please visit TWinteriorscom.
